A decade in the works, Penashue’s book, Nitinikiau Innusi: I Keep The Land Alive, is the focus of this conversation between author and activist Tshaukuesh Elizabeth Penashue, her daughter and sometimes interpreter, Kanani Davis, and host Jessica Lea Fleming. Beginning as a daily diary, the book is a detailed account of her daily life peppered with Innu politics, history and culture, culminating in the formation of a full-fledged activist whose view of her own power changes as she is arrested for a protest and taken off to jail with nine other activists. Moving between English and Montagnais (the Innu language), the conversation shows us that one can come to a cause that ignites our passion at any age and transform lives. Tshaukuesh Elizabeth Penashue is a cultural and environmental activist who is well known both in her community and internationally. For many years, she and other peaceful protesters fought against low level flying and bomb testing in Innu homelands in Labrador and Newfoundland and she was arrested a number of times for her activism. Her work has been recognized by a National Aboriginal Achievement award, an honourary doctorate from Memorial University, and numerous media interviews and profiles, articles and consultations. Her first book, Nitinikiau Innusi: I Keep The Land Alive (University of Manitoba Press, 2019), chronicles her experiences as a community activist in battles to preserve the culture and language of the Innu people in Newfoundland and Labrador as well as Quebec, and her work in stopping the practice of low-level flying by the military that caused enormous disruptions in these communities. Kanani Davis is the Director, Administration & Professional Services of Mamu Tshishkutamashutau Innu Education. She is is an Innu educator. Kanani was the first Innu speaking graduate from Memorial University of Newfoundland with a Bachelor of Education. She also has linguistic training in standardized Innu spelling. She has developed many Innu children’s books in Innu aimun. Equally comfortable in a tent, a classroom or a boardroom, Kanani brings a wealth of knowledge, experience and passion to all of her endeavours. She is married with four children. Jessica Lea Fleming is of Métis and Scottish ancestry from Penetanguishene, Ontario. She is an award-winning artist, published poet, producer and performer based in Hamilton. Jessica works in theatre, film and multi-disciplinary mediums as a means of exploring connection, identity, land-based knowledge and the Divine Feminine.
Portions of this episode contain dialogue in the Innu language. For reasons of length, we have shortened the portions in Innu for English speakers. The transcript for the episode is available here.
If you would like to hear the episode with the full Innu language dialogue left intact, please click please click here (link to YouTube video - audio only). Unfortunately, we can't yet offer a transcript of the portions that are in the Innu language.
*Note: given the current temporary closure of TPL due to the COVID-19 pandemic, we have made our best efforts to offer suggestions below for materials which are part our online collections, and available at home to anyone with a current Toronto Public Library card. All TPL print and other in-branch materials will be available once we re-open and are operating under normal conditions.
Books by Tsaukuesh Elizabeth Penashue:
Nitinikiau Innusi: I Keep The Land Alive
Books or Materials About Activism
When They Call You a Terrorist: a Black Lives Matter Memoir by PatrisseKhan-Cullors (audiobook) (ebook available here)
She Takes a Stand: 16 Fearless Activists Who Changed the World (ebook)
Indigenous Women, Work and History (ebook)
Violence Against Indigenous Women: Literature, Activism, Resistance by Allison Hargreaves (ebook)
Books or Other Materials about the Innu
Innu of Labrador (link opens an article on the Virtual Museum of Labrador)
Innu People: A History (link opens a Youtube video on Indigenous Americans)
Peoples: Innu (link opens an article on Circum-Arctic Gallery)
Live Mic: Best of TPL Conversations features curated discussions and interviews with some of today’s best-known and yet-to-be-known writers, thinkers and artists, recorded on stage at one of Toronto Public Library’s 100 branches.
Episodes are produced by Natalie Kertes, Jorge Amigo, and Gregory McCormick. Technical support by Michelle De Marco and George Panayotou. AV support by Jennifer Kasper and Mesfin Bayssassew. Marketing support by Tanya Oleksuik.
Music is by The Worst Pop Band Ever.
Live Mic: Best of TPL Conversations
Elizabeth Penashue: Diary of an Innu Elder
NOTE: Please note that portions of this episode contain dialogue in the Innu language. For reasons of length, we have shortened the portions in Innu for English speakers.
If you would like to hear the episode with the full Innu language dialogue left intact, please click here (link to YouTube video - audio only). Unfortunately, we can't yet offer a transcript of the portions that are in the Innu language.
[OPENING MUSIC]
Gregory McCormick (GM): Welcome to Live Mic: Best of TPL Conversations, our regular Toronto Public Library podcast series featuring curated discussions and interviews with some of today’s best-known and yet-to-be-known writers, thinkers and artists, recorded on stage at one of Toronto Public Library’s 100 branches.
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[background conversation]
Jessica Lea Fleming (JLF): I'm a bit of a nerd so I have all these Post-its and questions. I'm very prepared.
JLF: I think one of the things that really interested me in this conversation from the beginning, and you did touch on it in the book, is how much language actually shapes our perspective and how much language shapes our world view. So, for instance, I know in Mohawk, for instance, there's no word for "Nothing". In Anishinaabemowin there's no word for, "You're welcome," because we're reciprocal nations so it's understood that a thank you is just thank you and you'll get me back. We don't have to say you're welcome. And so in the translation process and I know Kanani, you were very involved in the translation process, I'm curious to understand how...how did you try, how did you manage to maintain the core of the language, translating it into English. Were there challenges and how was that for you?
Kanani Davis (KD): Okay.
JLF: For both of you.
KD: Okay. It was very difficult to translate mom's book.
[dialogue in Innu]
KD: So when mom... Mom's been writing journals daily. Anything that comes up she'll write it, and so for... She's been doing that for many years. So she's been trying to write this book for so long, and she's been, I've tried to help her, my sisters tried to help her, a couple of Innu from Quebec have tried to help her. So it was very very difficult because what I found challenging is that mom will pick up a notebook or a paper or any scribbler that was lying around, and if she didn't have her journal in front of her, she would grab anything and just start writing. So trying to coordinate all the information, all the writing, it was very very difficult. And so I'm embarrassed to say, I kinda liked, "Oh, no I can't do this. This is too... " In one page, there was a date and then on the same page, there was another date. So it was confusing for me, so somebody had to literally sit down with mom which was Elizabeth Yeoman [the translator of Penashue’s book] after many years. Somebody had to literally sit down with mom and mom read her journal, her diary, to Elizabeth Yeoman but she... She read it in Innu but she translated it herself and then Elizabeth would write it. I would look at it and say, "Okay, no, this is not how you say it. This is not how... This is not how... "
JLF: Like reflective?
KD: Yeah.
JLF: Of the meaning?
KD: So the literal translation wouldn't come out the same as the Innu so I would have to go back to Elizabeth and say, "Okay I don't think mom would have said it that way. I think what she meant... " Then I would go back to her diary and read it and then explain to Elizabeth, "This is how...This is what mom was saying." So it was like three people trying to put it together.
JLF: Yeah. And I think of the word, help me with the pronunciation, [Innu].
KD: Yeah.
JLF: Which there was an example in the book about how literally it means "in the bush", but for you it means "in our home", like in where we are meant to be. So it's not exactly the same.
KD: Out on the land. Yeah.
JLF: Out on the land.
KD: Out on the land. Yeah.
KD: Yeah. There's a difference between being out in [Innu] and...
KD: [Innu] is like the community. So when you say [Innu] is being out on the land away from...
JLF: The people.
KD: Yeah. Yeah.
[dialogue in Innu]
KD: So [Innu] word is an old word that the elders have used for being out on the land.
JLF: I was curious to know how did those early victories embolden you? How do those kind of early wins those little wins give you a bit of more power to say, "You know what? We can actually fight the institutional powers." So that is the question. I know there's more context in it but...
[dialogue in Innu]
Tshaukuesh Elizabeth Penashue (TEP): Okay. I want to speak little bit, but my English is not very good. Let me know if you don't understand me. My daughter, she's gonna help me. Because when I was young, I never been... I never stayed in [Shehaji - Innu] where I'm from. Always my parents hunting in the bush in the country always. I stay in the country, always my parents hunting. Sometimes my parents just come couple of months, couple of weeks and then we went back in the country, and then I was very happy. That's why I don't speak English very good. I didn't go to school very much, just a little bit and go again in the country. But I know a little bit English. I was working in old hospital when I was young, that's why I learned a little bit. When I start the protest and fight the government, I never know before I start, before doing something. I never know women so strong. I thought the man, man very strong. That's a man job. As man she's supposed to do this. I didn't know.
TEP: And then when I stand up, I feel like I wake them up, womens in [Shehaji - Innu] I feel like that. Just like I said, "Wake up, womens, we got to do something. Wake up." That's what I feel. And then women stand up and speak. And then after when we stand up, all the womens, I never think anymore a man so strong, man his job. Women so very strong, women. And then I was thinking, I can see the women stand up, I can hear the women so strong when she speak. Sometimes we sat down together, women. Each women I listen. All Innu womens got idea, that's what we should do, that's what we should do. And then I was very happy, I was very proud. I was very happy. And every day I can see what the women doing so strong and speak and I was very, very happy.
JLF: That resonates throughout your stories is the power of women and the power of sisterhood. And I was wondering about the traditional organization of Innu Society. Did you have a council of grandmothers who would elect a male leader or is it a matriarchal or patrilinical, like how... Patrilineal, sorry. What is the structure? What was the traditional structure?
[dialogue in Innu]
KD: Way back, she said there was no such thing as a band council or a leadership in... Like an organization. 'Cause we have an organization in [Shehaji - Innu] that's called Innu Nation or the Band council. She said there was no such thing as that. She remembers elders talking with their wives. It was elders, like a man and a woman, coming together to talk about solutions. It was never a higher... Like a leadership. It was the elders that did the talking I guess the... Yeah.
[dialogue in Innu]
KD: So this... She said this is recent. This is new for us having a leadership role with the Band, having a chief. That's new in our culture. So when they started this protest and standing up to the government, she said, when the women stood up, she took on that role of leading the women, so then she invited women to speak up more. So that's where she took off with the, I guess, standing up for the women.
JLF: Yeah, and I... You brought up in your book, and I think it's important to note that Band Councils were government-appointed. That's not something that Indigenous people were like, "We should put this in place for ourselves."
KD: Yeah.
JLF: It was another means of controlling Indigenous people and rationing the resources that the communities received. So these were not the points of activism there, I think, sometimes built up to be from the outside. That's I think the perception.
KD: Yeah.
JLF: So that's an important distinction.
KD: Yeah.
JLF: And marsiii for clarifying that for us too. So I know you were... I know I want to talk about the walking and the canoeing. I know that's a really important part and that's what your stories are about. But I also... Because of the timing of when this work was happening, the... In particular in the 90s, I was very, I think, conflicted actually around what it would have been like and curious. But what it would have been like to be fighting during the 90s when we had the Oka Crisis happening. When we had all these events in Canada that were taking place. The last residential school closed in 1996 in Saskatchewan. So there are people who are coming out of these... There are survivors coming out of these abusive institutions who are trying to heal and reclaim culture and fight for what they know is right and are gathering together. But also, you noted it was difficult. It was painful and sometimes disorganized, and there were problems within the movement. And so I don't know if it's a painful thing to talk about, but I would like to know more about the climate. How were people working together at that time and what were the challenges, and what were the successes? How do you keep going through something like that?
[dialogue in Innu]
KD: Yeah, so she said, then earlier... Earlier in the 80s where we spent a lot of time in [Innu], in the country. So spending time in the country, in Labrador, spent a lot of time in the country so they would be in the country for spring and fall. So she said, "This is where we started getting nervous because there were so many low-level flying." They would spend the... They would be frightened of the low-level flying that was going on their land. They were trying to hunt, and animals were being scared. And the people that were in the country, they didn't know when a low-level jet would come down while they're on the canoe or while they're hunting. So this is when they started saying that "we need to do something 'cause we can't continue being scared when you're in the country trying to hunt and feed your family."
[dialogue in Innu]
KD: And children were very scared to play outside or to be... If they're in the country and the kids couldn't play, kids couldn't go very far because of the low-level jets that were flying low over their camps.
JLF: And you also mentioned about the low-level flying. This is the NATO, the bomb testing and so forth that it was impacting the land and impacting the animals. And that when you would hunt and begin to clean the animals that you could see the difference in the meat. And so I wonder if... Has it changed since then or are the animals still impacted? Is it better or is it worse? What is the... What is it like now on the land?
[dialogue in Innu]
KD: You still worry about the animals and the food that you eat, the animals, because of pollution. For example, the bombing range, there's pollution. You don't know what was dropped if there was still... And animals eat everything from the land, there's berries and all that, so you worry about what you eat.
JLF: And what about the water as well because there were two dams constructed, right? Were there two different dam sites on the river or just one?
KD: One.
JLF: Just one.
KD: Yeah, yeah.
JLF: Okay. So the hydroelectric dam, but I thought I remembered something about the fish containing mercury and so there must have been dumping happening in the rivers and waters as well.
KD: Yeah.
[dialogue in Innu]
KD: Yeah, she's talking about the Upper Churchill when that started and then they were sent to... And then in the Lower Churchill now, yeah. So yeah she said with the Upper Churchill that also created a lot of the worry of mercury in the fish. Yeah.
[dialogue in Innu]
KD: So they're worried more of mercury because of the second dam being developed.
JLF: Okay.
[dialogue in Innu]
KD: And this is something you never saw before or years ago. You didn't worry about the pollution, or you didn't worry about what you were gonna eat, whether the animals and the fish were... There was pollution or... So now, she said, you worry about is it safe to eat the fish, so that's always thinking about the pollution. Yeah.
JLF: I think that a lot of the people here who have children would relate to the idea that came up a lot, that you mentioned a lot, which was that when you were away from your family, you were missing your family, but when you're with your family, you're working so hard that you're so tired and you're thinking about the work you have to be doing. I have a son who's just over a year now and this idea of never doing enough is a new... All these mothers are laughing at me. It's a new mental challenge to navigate, that you're always shortchanging somebody. And it came up over and over again, you missed your children, you missed your grandchildren, your great-grandchildren, you have so much work to do, you're so tired. And I just couldn't help, but that hit my heart every time I would read it. And I wanna ask you if you have advice for us, me, but also if you have advice for your younger self, what would you have said to yourself to kind of navigate that?
[dialogue in Innu]
KD: She said it was very hard, but she said it was also very important to continue to protect the land, to save the land. It was so important, but you also felt like it was hard to leave your children when you're out trying to do the right thing as well, but you always remind your children when you leave, "I'll be back. I'll be back." And your children will be crying, but you have to comfort and remind them, "I'll be back."
JLF: And by doing that work, you're setting an example for being a proud person and a warrior and a leader, so...
[dialogue in Innu]
KD: She said when they left in the morning to go fight during the protest or fight the government, they didn't know they would be back the same day or they'd be incarcerated. But she would always remind her kids, "If I don't come back today, then don't worry about me." So she said one time there was nine women that were arrested and there was nine of them in the jail, like in the lock-up, but they all comforted themselves. All the mothers comforted themselves and just to say... They talked about their children and wondering if they're okay, and they understand what they're doing.
JLF: Activism now is so different than it would have been in the 80s and 90s. So much of activism now takes place on Instagram and social media and online. And to think of how much you hate flying and how much you flew to talk to people and to talk to leaders and to go to other countries and to make international headlines to draw attention to the bombings, the low-level flying, like the weapons testing and the pollution and everything, is absolutely incredible. And I wonder how in your lifetime your activism has changed. Has it slowed down? Are you still doing the walks? Are you still doing the canoes? Canoeing.
[dialogue in Innu]
KD: She says she hasn't given up the fight. She hasn't given up protecting the land.
[applause]
KD: She said she still goes on the yearly walks, and the last walk we did in spring, this past spring. But the canoe trip that she and my dad were doing for more than a decade, they've been canoeing on Churchill River to protest against the hydro dams, but the last canoe trip we did a couple of years ago it was dangerous. Hey, Lucas.
[chuckle]
KD: Lucas was on a canoe trip with us. And it's because of the hydro dam that was built, the water is a lot faster, the water is higher, and it was... So that was three years ago, I believe, we did the canoe trip, but she doesn't do those anymore 'cause it's too dangerous since they built the dam. But she does continue to do her walks to raise awareness of keeping the language, keeping the land and the culture alive.
[dialogue in Innu]
KD: She's talking about the walks that she has every year, so she always invites people to show them what it's like to be out on the land, and why she does these walks, continue to protect and teach the Innu history, talk about the Innu history, so people can learn the culture. So she said she talked about that. Lucas had been on the walk a few times, and so she said she still hasn't given up on those and she's hoping again to go again this spring. We'll see. [chuckle]
[applause]
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GM: On the Live Mic episode page, livemic.ca, you will find biographies of featured writers, guests and hosts, as well as links to TPL’s collections or other episode-related materials. For all of TPL’s podcast series go to tpl.ca/podcasts.
Toronto Public Library is one of the world's busiest urban public library systems. Every year, more than 20 million people visit our 100 branches in neighbourhoods across the city and borrow more than 32 million items.
Live Mic: Best of TPL Conversations is produced by the Toronto Public Library. Episodes are produced by Natalie Kertes. Jorge Amigo, and me, Gregory McCormick. Technical support by Michelle De Marco and George Panayotou. AV support by Jennifer Kasper and Mesfin Bayssassew. And marketing support by Tanya Oleksuik.
Music is by Worst Pop Band Ever also known as WPBE.
I’m Gregory McCormick, Manager of Cultural and Special Event Programming at Toronto Public Library. Thanks for listening and stay tuned for another episode of Live Mic: Best of TPL Conversations.